Thursday, August 21, 2008


I had trouble sleeping last night because I came across a webpage by an acquaintance. She persists in shunning women who are called to leadership--and has insulted me in my own home--even though she pushes her husband around--and builds the "case" on that one scripture (incorrectly translated) that tells wimmin' folk to shut up in church--while ignoring Junia, Nympha, Chloe, Priscilla, and Phoebe, among others.
My journey in Christianity has led me to some interesting places, and I'm at a point where the Bigness of God just makes my head spin. Church seems so very small right now, and I know some of you have great churches, I wish I could find one, or come with you. We visited a new one last week and my husband waited patiently while I calmed myself in the parking lot; all the frustrations coming back. It was friendly enough, but no women in leadership, so there you are. The communication card offered coffee, childcare, and parking as places to serve. There was no place to check ministering, or caring for people.
Not that we need to check a box for that. We're going back, though, and I'll have to suck it up because my husband doesn't have "church" every day with folks like you, like I do. I'll just have to Trust.
The bottom line is, I want the Really Good News out there.
Anyway, rather than rewrite, I thought I'd re-cycle, even though it's a little testy:

I really don't have anything intellectual to say about this subject right now. It's all from my gut. You know how I feel about the subject of women in just seems that the devil is throwing all these blogs, comments, and websites at me that espouse limits of the calling of women to pastor over a congregation. I'm not just talking about men here.

First...I'm currently out of church, but women in ministry was never an issue with me personally. I was ordained as an elder...and the RCA considers that once an elder always an elder with them. Eldership means serving the Body. That's it, and that's the only way that I would allow myself to answer that call--in that manner. I always consider myself to be a servant. Kneeling before a congregation to be "ordained" meant that I made a public promise to do so.'s unbelievable to me that in this day and age, with all the information available, that there are still Neanderthals among us who lie through their teeth when they say "women and men are equal. They just have different 'roles.'" The Q'uran says something similar. It says that women and men are equal, but men are 'more' equal than women.Hmmmm.Who of us has the right to say what anyone's role is? If God calls you to minister, to serve, you GO! If someone tries to stop you, just who exactly are they working for?

Third...the powers that be, the ones who are keeping their chosen Bible translations in your hands, and the information away that they DON'T want you to see, are the ones we should be keeping an eye on. They want to confuse you by saying that these new translations are gender inclusive. That's a lie. The truth is they are gender ACCURATE. There's a huge difference. Be proactive....go to the interlinears and some websites (I'll help ya) and see how many words have been inserted that were never there. Do a little sleuthing. Don't be spoon-fed.

Fourth...Jesus had no trouble using women in ministry, why should anyone else? When Paul's words are really looked at, he had no trouble with women either. I used to think so, but not anymore. And quit throwing those horrible translations of the "women" scriptures at me. And stop with the rules that aren't even in scripture! Only priests can anoint? Jesus had no problem being anointed by a woman before his death! He chastised her criticizers. What would he say to you? What can I say? That's where I am. If you don't think women should pastor over a church, don't go to that church.There's a battle out there, and this is the time that God is calling His daughters to rise up and take up the sword with His sons against the enemy! The Truth is here. I can't imagine any real soldier who is intent on fighting and winning a battle that would refuse help from another warrior! There's work to be done.

If you can't get over it...then get out of the way.


brian said...


Our church is currently searching for a new pastor and I am thrilled that fully half (if not more) of the profiles we've reviewed have been from women.

karen said...

Brian, that's awesome. May the best PERSON be chosen, male or female!

brian said...

Don't tell anyone. I'd prefer a woman. But, I trust we will choose the best PERSON. May be a man, may be a woman. May be gay. May be straight.


karen said...

I won't tell a soul. ;-)

Milly said...

You are always welcome to join me at the church I attend. We are a Cof C so we are not exactly progressive in the women leading rolls. We do have a woman leader in the teens and one leading the children’s ministry. For a CofC that’s a huge thing.
I pray that you find the right fit for both of you.

Missy said...

I know you know I have my own ideas about scripture (and they're a-changing every day), but I've kinda been feeling like I should scrap the doctrine and dogma in church - i.e., never talk about it - and simply, actively love and serve. How do I get past those moments that fire me up? Don't know. Getting up and taking a prayer walk helped the last time. Milly has permission to run - I'm working on getting that. :)

The biggest lesson I've gotten out of blogging is that NO ONE agrees with me on all that church stuff (and a lot of other stuff, too!). Despite that, I have fallen head-over-heels in love with many of you. (How's that heel, btw?)

One can never have too many people in their lives that they both want to hug and shake violently at the same time. Give it a shot. Put the gun down - you know what I meant. :)

karen said...

Thanks, milly and missy...yes, millster...for CofC..that is huge!
missy, no guns here. I will be content to go where my husband feels comfortable.
I agree with you on lots of stuff..and I appreciate the interesting way you view scripture...because I see it differently, too. I don't like being spoon-fed, and I don't think you do, either.

Missy said...

I've had very pleasant daydreams about being catatonic...

karen said... that for kitties with hairballs? ;-) benign starin' and sittin' around for us gals.

Maggie said...


So glad you stopped by today. It lifted my spirits.

Do you, by any chance, do any mosaic tile work or stained glass work?

I have a few things in mind I would like to do or have done, and I am thinking I may start painting or creating mosaic stepping stones, tabletops, wall art, etc. I love mosaics, and I need to busy myself.

Poetry has been my creative outlet for so long, but my muse has been on a very long vacation.


karen said...

Hi, Maggie! Those muses leave at the most inopportune times, truly!
I left another comment at your place. Yes, I've done both mosaics and stained glass. Why don't you email me?
Let's "talk!"

Maggie said...

I added you to my coming soon!

Don said...

My comments....on "Say What!?

Pat said...

Hi everyone:

I'm back. It's becoming clear that I need a place to fellowship and like Karen, am having trouble finding a "church" where I can be and not feel like I'm betraying what God is showing me about what His body is. Maybe this should be on my own blog and not saying something on Karen's.

However, I wanted to comment on the woman question. It grieves me that so few really care. This summer I did two seminars on biblical womanhood. The one in my home town had almost no attendence. The one in New Mexico was much better but still I wonder how can people be so uninterested not only in what God intends for gender but also in how deep a relationship we have with Him.

So, I'm back to meet with you and revel in getting to know people who do care about Him and His kingdom and getting it right--His way.

Pat (