Monday, December 01, 2008

Another one bites the dust. . .

Just lamenting tonight because, once again, a friend has been harmed by a church. Because she is a woman, she was told that she could not be a candidate for a (volunteer) pastoral care position.
Unbelievable. Then these church "leaders" wonder why their churches are not growing.
Didn't God use Deborah and many other women for His work?
Didn't women walk with Jesus?
Didn't Paul say each person brings gifts to the Church?
Didn't Paul work alongside Phoebe, Priscilla, Chloe, Nympha, Junia?
Doesn't it say that "sons AND daughters" will prophesy?
If God has no problem using women, why should anyone else?


Abby said...

Before he took over, my dad's church actually had some weird stuff like that going on...women weren't allowed to do anything except teach Sunday school and serve food after service, and they actually had to cover their heads when they sat in service. It's strange to hear my parents and their congregants talk about it; thankfully, my dad's been careful and graceful in addressing those situations, so hopefully, some healing can take place.

It's such a very foreign concept to me, personally, having grown up in the Foursquare Church (you can't really argue that women shouldn't be pastors when your denomination was started by a woman--good ol' Sister Aimee) and going to college with the Nazarenes (who were always very careful to make sure that both men and women had equal chances to become pastors across the country). While I can somewhat see the logic in it, it's just weird that people actually ignore all the evidence against the idea.

brian said...


The problem is in how some people interpret just a few verses in the Bible. As long as they remain inerrant literalists who believe each verse holds all truth they are going to hold onto this view. Thankfully, most churches have moved past that. If someone finds herself in church that has not, that may be an indicator that it is time to move on.


karen said...

Abby, thanks, may have to see if there are any Foursquare churches around. Covering their heads...based on that one verse that no one really knows what it means? LOL. The evidence for women in leadership abounds in the Bible; we just get spoon fed all of the interestingly translated verses that appear to limit females. No church that I know of even talks about the women I listed. Even my children's bible has no account of Deborah.
Brian, yes, my dear friend is moving on and her husband is supporting her in this. Unfortunately, even in our metroplex, most churches really HAVEN'T moved past this. The problem is, these guys are all proud of their seminary education, but they rarely partake of new findings in translations and papyri. That would be like your physician staying with what he or she learned in med school..never continuing their education.
Thanks for your comments!

Don said...

It is an issue that must be dealt with. The problem is many churches will simply not acknowledge that there is an issue. For them, dealing with it will come as their doors close for the last time. How sad.

karen said...

It is sad...they lost a woman who ministers to the living and dying, and is a psalmist.

Kansas Bob said...

"If God has no problem using women, why should anyone else?"

Amen Karen! Says more about the insecurities of leaders than anything. So sad when men hide behind "theology".

chris said...

Okay, this is gonna sound harsh but I don't care! Most churches today are run by narrow minded, self centered fanatics. The church needs to move beyond it's simplistic reading of scripture.

karen said...

"The church needs to move beyond it's simplistic reading of scripture."
Yeah! And their erroneous translations!
Chris...I saw your page on the Christian Universalism website. Cool! :-D

Abby said...

I think we actually drove past a Foursquare Church on the way to visit Glen's family the last time I was looks like there are a couple in Dallas and one in Farmers Branch and also one in Fort Worth. They're kind of...everywhere, heh.

I should see if I can get you in touch with two of my parents' good friends, both of them pastors, Muriel and Linda. Muriel's been a huge counsellor for my dad, and Linda's like a second mom to me, and both of them are ordained in the ICFG (Linda was actually ordained the same time as my dad!). I think you'd really love them...they're genuinely sweet ladies with the same passion you have for serving the Lord.

Mark D said...

I hope when you wrote "It is sad...they lost a woman who ministers to the living and dying, and is a psalmist." you were meaning that the church lost her, and not the church Body. In other words, I hope she is still ministering. She might want to read my recent posts "Reality Check" parts 1 and 2.

karen said...

Mark, she absolutely ministers. Her blog is Picture the Word on my links. Check it out. She is a blessing. I'll check out your posts, too, and tell Connie.
So glad you're back. Blogworld needs you.